Svarūpa Dāmodara: [introducing recording] 1973, Los Angeles. Prabhupada’s morning walk. April 21, 1973, Los Angeles. Prabhupada’s morning walk.
[Hindi] …Bhavānanda Mahārāja, Sudāmā Mahārāja, how are you? Very nice. [indistinct] dancing.
Prabhupāda: They have discovered one watch machine. You have seen that? You can…, you can immediately know what is the time where all the important places.
Brahmānanda: By a dial?
Prabhupāda: No, by electricity.
Karandhara: Yes. It has a dial on it. You turn the dial, and it tells you the time in different places…
[indistinct with others—microphone too far away]
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana, there is a place called Nidhuvana.
Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana. So that was a place… Still, people go to visit. So one Bhagavān dāsa Bābājī, he was chanting, and in the middle of his chanting he made [makes sound with hands like clapping] like this. So his disciples…
Yes. His disciples asked him, “Sir, why did you [makes clapping sound] do like this?” So “There was a goat entered Nidhuvana. So I drove it away. [claps]” So where is that machine by which you can see…? It is not the time, but see the activities of everywhere? But that is possible. Yes.
Brahmānanda: Oh, even though he did not see the goat, he knew it was there.
Prabhupāda: No, he’s seeing. Otherwise, how does he [makes sound] “Hut, hut, hut.” He’s seeing. Where is that machine? So this Darwin’s theory says that there was no intelligent man or brain, but how these books were written, thousands and thousands of years ago, these Vedic śāstras, if there were no intelligent brain? Vyāsadeva, like Vyāsadeva. Before Vyāsadeva also, other great sages, they compiled…
Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.
Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.
Brahmānanda: [indicating path] Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think it’s easier here. They have no explanation for the author who…, of the Vedic literatures. They say “unknown forest sages.”
Prabhupāda: Unknown, it may be unknown, but the things are there. Wherefrom they got the brain? That is our question. It may be unknown to you or unknown to me, but the brain work is there. The philosophy is there, and the… At least, the language, the poetic arrangement, the linguistic strength, everything is there. So you may not know the person, but you can understand the brain. Just like…
Brahmānanda: They think our brain is increasing, but actually we see it decreasing. Because we cannot duplicate that…
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you… To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world.
And… Now wherefrom this brain came out? Apart from accepting Kṛṣṇa as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain? Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin’s age?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Darwin says the…, he says in his history of the origin, he cannot trace completely.
Prabhupāda: No. Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history, tracing age?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he started that life, started from very primitive, different primitive forms…
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. What is the time of Darwin? Which year he was a professor?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The theory started in 1859, about…
Prabhupāda: 1859. So hundred years ago. So all the brains developed within hundred years. All these rascal came out within hundred years. And before that, there was no other rascal. Just see the fun. All the scientific improvement, anthropology, everything came within hundred or two hundred years.
Brahmānanda: Yes. That is their idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So before that, there were no brain.
Brahmānanda: ‘Cause they didn’t understand his theory.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because before that, they think that there’s no intelligent person…
Prabhupāda: That, that, I am pointing out, that all intelligent persons, during the British Empire they came out. The whole aim was to defy the Indian civilization.
Karandhara: They call it the “Age of Enlightenment.”
Karandhara: After the fifteenth century, they call it the “Age of Enlightenment.”
Prabhupāda: So the Britishers, they wanted to rule over India, and they were advertising, at least in India, that “We are making you civilized. Before British rule, the Indians were rude, primitive natives.” That’s all. That is their propaganda. The whole propaganda was to make the Indians note that “We are giving you life and civilization. Before this, you were not even human being.” That is their propaganda.
So they accept this literature, but they date within one thousand years, one thousand five hundred years. Even this rascal, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he dates Bhagavad-gītā within two thousand years. That’s all. Perhaps I am the first person making propaganda that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. I am the first person. All other so-called scholars, they have dated within two thousand years.
There was a book, England’s Work in India, written by one rascal Indian, M. Ghosh. In that book… That was taught in the schools in our days. The theme of the book is that before British rule, India was not at all advanced in any way. The incidence of satī… Satī, that was very elaborately explained. Satī…
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satī dharma?
Prabhupāda: Satī dharma. Yes. Formerly, even Arjuna’s stepmother, Mādrī, he also…, she also died with her husband. That was the system. The wife voluntarily used to die along with the husband.
Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī, wife of Dhṛtarāṣṭra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So later on such devoted wife was lacking. So the system was, some cases, they were forced to die. So these things have been elaborately explained in the, that book, and Britishers stopped it. So “The Indians were uncivilized. Britishers made them civilized.” Everything was misinterpreted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [japa]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not know the inner meaning…
Prabhupāda: No, inner meaning is there, but they would not explain that. Simply the dark side they would explain—and prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive; it has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during National Movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: Mother India. Do you know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I, no…
Prabhupāda: Ah. Mother India. She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it, “Drain inspector’s report.”
Prabhupāda: “Drain inspector’s report.”
Prabhupāda: Drain, that sewage water…
Brahmānanda: The sewer.
Prabhupāda: Sewage water.
Brahmānanda: That’s what she inspected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She’s a drain inspection report. And in reply to that, one Punjabi barrister, he wrote one book: Uncle Sam. He pointed out all the blackmailing of American government. So these things are going on. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. Those who are low class of men, they simply try to find out the faults. Guṇa icchanti saj-janāḥ: and those who are enlightened, they will take the qualities only.
saj-janā guṇa icchanti
doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ
mukti bhramarāḥ[?] icchanti
madhum icchanti bhramarāḥ
Yes. That, there are flies, ordinary flies, they are searching after sores, where is sore in your body. And there are bumblebees, they are searching after where is honey. Similarly, those who are rascals, they’ll find out, “Oh, here is a fault. Here is a fault.” [japa]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this is a demoniac quality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These Britishers should have tried to assimilate the mass Indian culture with their help, administrative help, to broadcast this culture. No. They wanted to exploit India, and prove that “Our ruling over India…” Because they have to show something to the outside world…
Brahmānanda: To justify the exploitation.
They would not allow anyone to enter India to make trade. And that is the cause of two big world wars. This is a… Real cause is India. Because the Germans, they were very intelligent. They were intelligent nation. They wanted to trade with India. So Britishers will not allow them. Actually, Britishers were selling goods, purchasing from Germany and Japan, and when German would go to trade, they will enhance the custom duty very, very large amount.
So that was the grudge of the German nation. Two times they fought with the… “Finish these Britishers—shopkeepers’ nation.” Yes. Hitler, Hitler was… Hitler or the Emperor Wilhelm, some of them, one of them, was calling the Britishers “shopkeepers’ nation.”
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Shopkeepers’ nail?
Prabhupāda: Shopkeepers’ nation.
Brahmānanda: A nation of shopkeepers only.
Prabhupāda: That’s all. Why the shopkeepers’ nation should predominate all over the world? Kill them. That is their [indistinct]. And actually it is the German people who killed Britishers, British lion. Apart…, after the Second War…
Brahmānanda: British was finished.
Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nation pressed on them, “Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up.” And they were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nation pressed that “They’re wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?” Still, they would not go.
But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. “Now we cannot rule it.” For their industry, for their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That’s a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India’s weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.
Brahmānanda: The…, the independence movements of Africa, they took great inspiration from Gandhi’s movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Brahmānanda: If Gandhi did it, then, they say, “Oh, now we can do it.”
Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa, South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. One time he was crossing the street and the mob beaten him so severely, he could have died. One Englishman saved him. Was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. Yes.
One Dr. Kalidas Nama…
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidas?
Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidas Nama. Did you hear his name?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.
Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda? In philosophy?
Prabhupāda: No, history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, history.
Prabhupāda: In my higher class, I had history. So he was teaching us history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the standard of Calcutta University, Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time when Śrīla Prabhupāda was in the University? How was the…
Prabhupāda: Oh, it was nice. Very nice students were coming out.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moral standard was very good?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We respected our professors like our father. The relationship between the student and the professors was very good. I had one Scottish professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my nice friend. He was professor of philosophy, psychology. Later on he became vice-chancellor.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: Calcutta, yes. He was very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes [chuckles] we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked, [Bengali]. So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: [Bengali].
So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate…
[aside:] Good morning.
…good educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching our English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Chandra Chatterjee. Yes. “Your Bankim-babu says like this.” He used to say like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: That means he studied Bankim literature. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee was compared with Sir Walter Scott of English literary men. Sir Walter Scott. In those days, Charles Dickens.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Charles Dickens.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Sir Walter Scott were known two very great English literary men.
Prabhupāda: After [indistinct]. Yes, novelists. So the relationship was very nice. There were… Otherwise, how the Britishers could rule, unless there was obedience? But as soon as they saw, “Now the obedience is going on. The soldiers are leaving our camp and joining the National camp,” immediately they decided to leave peacefully. “Otherwise, there would be some revolution. At that time, all good relationship will go. Better separate with good relation.” This was Attlee’s policy, to convince statesmen like Churchill that “You cannot rule over India any more. Better separate in good relationship.”
Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few weeks ago, there was a supplement in the Times, the London Times. So they were describing about the relationship between British and India, in the early British period and after the British period. There they talked only about very good points, whereas they never say anything about… All very good points.
Prabhupāda: No, that… When they discuss, they must describe the good points only. But some of the British rulers were very, very unkind. And the last was that Jallianwala Bagh massacre, created by Lord Chelmsford. Then the British rule finished. In 1917, and immediately Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. So after thirty years, the Britishers were obliged to leave.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta…
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was student there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda was in the Scottish Church?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It’s very popular among the…
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Calcutta, there are two colleges, Presidency College and Scottish Churches College. All respectable families, son will go there, Scottish Churches College or Presidency College.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started almost at the same time?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College…
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Private.
Prabhupāda: …by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Shrirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still now the schools are respected now.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still now they have good names…
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Presidency College and Scottish Church College.
Prabhupāda: Now they are ruined due to this Naxalite movement. Subhas Bose was in our college.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish? Oh.
Prabhupāda: He was first in the Presidency College, but on account of his national spirit, he was rusticated from Presidency College. Then he came to our college.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a…
Svarūpa Dāmodara: …Subhas Bose Research Institute in Calcutta in…
Prabhupāda: Subhas Bose?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. About the museum.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Hazrat, Hazrat Road, it is in…, near, not far from…?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Maha…
Prabhupāda: Mahajati Sadan.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Mahajati Sadan.
Prabhupāda: That is in Central Calcutta.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are many foreign scholars from…, they’re mostly from Japan, and many…
Prabhupāda: I don’t find. I do not know much about it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When I was in Calcutta, I used to go there quite regularly. Because I was studying German. They have got German classes better in that institute.
[looking at fisherman’s paraphernalia]
Prabhupāda: This is the food for the fish?
Karandhara: Yes, bait.
Prabhupāda: Horse dung?
Brahmānanda: No, clams.
Prabhupāda: What is that, clam?
Prabhupāda: Oh. [japa]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are so many flies.
Prabhupāda: They are not flies; they’re insect of the sand. They live within the sand. The scientist will say, “You see? The living entities coming out of sand, from matter.”
Brahmānanda: “Automatically,” they say.
Prabhupāda: But why don’t you create from sand, fly like that? You are so advanced. Take some grains of sand and create another fly. They cannot create even an ant, and still they say that “Life is coming out from matter. And in future we shall create.” In future, what is your credit? It is already there. If your science is perfect, that life is coming out of matter, now prove it by laboratory experiment. Take some sand and create some life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there’s no proof.
Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so?
If they accept that life started from life, then they’ll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that?
Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly, and still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they’ll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that…
Prabhupāda: But that means that is not… Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother’s womb, and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition; then it develops the body.
This is… We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected in the womb of the mother. Then you’ll get…, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.
Brahmānanda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.
Brahmānanda: It’s a serious matter.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this contraceptive method is sinful activity. Abortion, contraceptive method, this is against the, I mean to say, plan of the Supreme. Just like the government is making some plan, and if you spoil it, you are criminal. What is the time now?
Brahmānanda: Twenty of seven. Twenty minutes of seven.
Prabhupāda: So we can return now.
Brahmānanda: We have to go this way.
Prabhupāda: Which way?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So their statement that life started from matter can be disproved very easily?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Any child can disprove it. And that theory is also wrong that lower type of animals were first created. No. All different varieties were…, all were existing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda explains that in, in Bhagavad-gītā, in one of the purports.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever desire the living entities had before the annihilation, that became the… The living entities enter into different bodies according to their…
Svarūpa Dāmodara: …desire.
Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life, so nature gives him: “All right, take this body.” He desires in a certain way means he’s associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he’s getting a particular type of body. Mind. Mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing, these are the psychological functions. So first of all thinking. Then it develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation.
[break] One enters into the body of a pig. Then he’ll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase, somehow or other you fall down, then again you have to go step by step. This is the… The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.
Devotee: [referring to steps] Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is dirty.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. It is loose. On account of hastiness, I could not properly set up.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some birds, Śrīla Prabhupāda, like the mynah…?
Prabhupāda: Mynah, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can be taught to say something. So if they are taught to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa…
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: …then are this…, this is a good service?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Little service. By hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he’ll be elevated.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the bird doesn’t know that he’s chanting…
Prabhupāda: No, he doesn’t know.
Brahmānanda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He could teach animals the chanting of the names of…
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu can do everything. He can deliver anyone without chanting. For Him, there is no condition. So this morning, I could not wash my face. So therefore the cookies may be distributed to the devotees. I have not washed my face, you see. Harer nāma harer nāma… [Cc. Ādi 17.21].
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Brahmānanda: Go back early and wash. You could go back earlier and then wash and then [indistinct].
Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa… Jaya, Hari Bol! [end]