Morning Walk

Morning Walk
Dec 15
Los Angeles

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The sky is quite clear. id1

Prabhupāda: Yes. Can you change it? Can you change it? id2

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. [laughter] id3

Prabhupāda: Then what kind of scientist you are? id4

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A rascal scientist. id5

[Prabhupāda laughs] id6

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I put a question? id7

Prabhupāda: Yes. id8

Candanācārya: Yesterday I made the acquaintance of a theologist, a professor from the University of Montreal. He said that the Roman Catholic presentation of Christianity is that God came to share the suffering of man. id9

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man? id10

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said, “So that man would accept more as reality, suffering.” id11

Prabhupāda: Very good theologician. A rascal number one. You are trying for becoming happy, and his theory is that man will accept suffering. You see? The very proposition is rascaldom. Everyone is trying for to become happy. That is progress. Ātyantika. In Sanskrit it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. id12

There is suffering, and our struggle for existence means to, I mean to say, mitigate the suffering, to minimize or to make it nil. That is our struggle. We are not submitting to suffering. Then what is the civilization? What is human civilization? We don't want suffering. That is our position. Why this rascal says that “We shall suffer”? Just see. The theologician is a rascal. Therefore we say everyone rascal. id13

Prajāpati: The same theologician, Prabhupāda, he calls himself an atheist theist. id14

Prabhupāda: Eh? id15

Candanācārya: He said, “I am an atheist theist.” id16

Prabhupāda: Atheist theist? What is this? id17

Prajāpati: Just rascal, double talk. id18

Prabhupāda: Another rascal. Another rascal proposition. id19

Candanācārya: I asked him, “How can a theologist be an atheist?” id20

Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that because the whole world is full of rascals, they are all talking nonsense. No meaning. No meaning. It is only we, we are pointing out that “You are a rascal. You speak all nonsense.” Now, taking this word “atheist,” what does he mean by atheist? id21

Candanācārya: Without theism? id22

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not explanation. id23

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atheist means not believing in God. id24

Prabhupāda: Yes. Say like that. Don't say in a negative way. In a positive way. What does it mean, atheist? id25

Prajāpati: He says there is no God. id26

Prabhupāda: There is no God. Then what do you mean by “God”? Next question. Next question will be, “What do you mean by 'God'? ” id27

Candanācārya: So he'll say the conception which has been presented by the different religions. id28

Prabhupāda: What is your conception? Why do you go to different religions? You are talking with me. So you say…, what do you mean by God? Next question will be this. Don't go to others. Don't fly away. You are atheist. You are posing yourself atheist. Atheist means one who does not believe in God. That's all right. Now what do you mean by God? First of all the thing must be there; then you believe or not believe next. Just like here is a person. He says, “I believe in him”; I say, “I don't believe in him.” But the person is there. id29

Karandhara: Well, he'll say, “God is just an idea.” id30

Prabhupāda: Huh? id31

Karandhara: “God is an idea.” id32

Prabhupāda: Idea? id33

Karandhara: Yes. But ideas don't always represent facts. id34

Prabhupāda: So idea is there. You say that it is not fact, but others say it is a fact. So how it will be mitigated? How it will be settled? “God” word is there. You say that it is an idea. id35

Candanācārya: A “sky flower” is an idea, but it's not fact. id36

Prabhupāda: No, just like God, let us stick on word, that God… You say it is an idea only. I say it is not an idea; it is fact. id37

Karandhara: Well, then they say, “By objective empirical analysis it has to be researched. Scientific.” id38

Prabhupāda: Oh, then let us analyze. Analyze. Let us analyze. That… We say that God means Supreme, Supreme Being. So how you can say that Supreme Being is an idea? How you can say? You accept Supreme Being. So how you can say it is idea? It is fact. id39

Karandhara: Well, they say there is no necessity for a Supreme Being. id40

Prabhupāda: No, there's a necessity. If you don't accept, then you will be beaten with shoes. Because as soon as there is light, you have to accept supreme authority. id41

Karandhara: But that's an authority we have imposed upon ourselves. id42

Prabhupāda: Yes, because there is need; therefore you have done it. There is necessity. id43

Karandhara: Well, some of them say, because people are generally ignorant, therefore we need this idea of God. id44

Prabhupāda: But you are less than ignorant. You are less than ignorant. You are less than rascal. If I call you a rascal, then I give you some honor. [laughter] id45

Karandhara: Lenin said that God is just opiate of the people, just to keep them intoxicated. id46

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. That means Lenin wanted to become God. That's all. The God idea is there, but he cannot be God. Because he was under the laws of God, he died. He died. He could not save himself from death. Therefore he is not supreme authority. He accepted supreme authority, but he wanted himself to become the supreme authority. Now, when he died, he is not supreme authority. He is forced to die. Then there is another supreme authority. id47

Karandhara: Well, then they can say ultimately death is meaningless anyway. id48

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? Then why you are afraid of death when I come to kill you? id49

Karandhara: Well, that it's meaningless doesn't mean I can't place some value on it at any given point. id50

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? It has meaning. Then why you are fighting? Why you fought for Russian Revolution? id51

Karandhara: Well, they give the example like numbers. Numbers are only useful for a purpose, but actually they are meaningless. id52

Prabhupāda: The purpose is meaningless then. Then your purpose is meaningless. id53

Karandhara: Yes, they say ultimately everything is meaningless. id54

Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. You are working for meaningless things. Then you are a rascal. That's all. And that is my version, that you are a rascal number one. id55

Karandhara: Well, they say everyone can introduce their own meaning to whatever they want. id56

Prabhupāda: No, then why do you try to get many followers? Let them do their own work. id57

Karandhara: No, to proliferate your own meaning. id58

Prabhupāda: No, no. You have got own meaning. You be satisfied with your own meaning. I have got my own meaning. Why do you bother me? id59

Karandhara: Well, my meaning may be to bother you. That may be part of my meaning. id60

Prabhupāda: Then my meaning is to beat you with shoes. [laughter] id61

Karandhara: Someone like Lenin, no one ever beat him. He was not beat. He beat everyone else. id62

Prabhupāda: No, no. He was also beaten—by death. He died also. id63

Karandhara: He said death is meaningless. id64

Prabhupāda: That means even if he is beaten, he will not accept it. He is such a rascal. He is such a rascal. He is being beaten every moment. He is becoming old. He is becoming diseased. He is dying. He still says, “I am not beaten. I am not beaten.” id65

Candanācārya: Actually, he still thinks that he's beating death because they put his body in a tomb… id66

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is being beaten every moment, every second, and still, he will say, “I am not beaten.” That is rascal number one. One is accepting that “Yes, I am being beaten,” he is sane man. And one who says that “I am not beaten,” he is getting old, and every moment he is being beaten, and still he says, “I am not beaten.” id67

Karandhara: Well, they have a philosophy called existentialism, that so long something exists, we can place value on it, but when it ceases to exist, there is no remorse. There is nothing to lament. id68

Prabhupāda: There is no nothing to lament, but why don't you exist? Why you struggle for existence? id69

Karandhara: But they say if you have money in your hand, as long as you have it, you can utilize it, but if you lose it, don't worry; it's nothing to lament. id70

Prabhupāda: But they worry. I have practically seen. They cry. id71

Karandhara: Well, they just fall short of their philosophy, the philosophy they hold as ideal. id72

Prabhupāda: So these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu… id73

Karandhara: Most Western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly. id74

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing. id75

Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation… id76

Prabhupāda: Huh? id77

Karandhara: They become so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted. id78

Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life. id79

Karandhara: They say that frustration is the only reality. id80

Prabhupāda: No. That is for you. id81

Karandhara: Absurd, the absurd philosophy. id82

Prabhupāda: [laughs] That is for you. id83

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That means they do not know the value of life. id84

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. That means rascaldom. That means rascaldom. id85

Karandhara: One of their chief philosophers, his name was Camus. So after he was propounding this philosophy and writing many books, one night he was driving in his car, and he decided that “There's no meaning, so why not just drive my car off a cliff?” So he just drove his car off a cliff, finished himself off. id86

Prabhupāda: Mad. Madmen. id87

Karandhara: But his books are in colleges especially. Millions and millions of students accept his books as practically gospel. id88

Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter of the book? id89

Karandhara: Subject matter of his books, that life is ultimately absurd. There is no real meaning to it. We place our own meanings on it, but those are… id90

Prabhupāda: So you are trying… Why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it? id91

Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity. id92

Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason. id93

Karandhara: Well, that's what he ultimately realized, that everything is absurd. There is no use speaking, writing or even living. id94

Prajāpati: In his foremost work, Śrīla Prabhupāda… id95

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is that you are saying “absurd,” I am saying, “not absurd.” Who will settle up this? That is the… If you settle your own affair, I settle my own affair, so who will settle up whether I am right, you are right? id96

Śrutakīrti: It will be settled at death. id97

Prabhupāda: That's all. [laughs] Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca [Bg. 10.34]. The death is equally acceptable by you and me, but… And it is also a fact you don't want to die; I also don't want to die. Then there is authority. id98

Karandhara: No, but in his case, he didn't care. He died willingly. id99

Prabhupāda: No, no. He didn't care, but he always takes care. That is a fact. He always takes care. id100

Karandhara: No, but on this instance, he died willingly. He wanted to die. id101

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he might be pretending. Might be died, but he was thinking that he'll not [indistinct]. id102

Karandhara: No, but he killed himself. id103

Prabhupāda: Yes, he did not want to die, but just to keep prestige, he might have died. That's all. id104

Karandhara: I think he wanted to die. [laughter] id105

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like people who do suicide. id106

Prabhupāda: Then if you want to die, let me kill you immediately. You will be happy. id107

Rūpānuga: He wrote another book, called Nausea, wherein he wrote how life made him sick to his stomach. id108

Prabhupāda: That means madman. Sometimes madman commits suicide. He's a madman, that's all. id109

Karandhara: Practically, in the last three hundred…, two hundred years, all the most famous writers and scholars and intellectuals, they all became madmen. id110

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be, because they do not know what is to be known. Their knowledge is imperfect. id111

Karandhara: Nietzsche, Freud, they all died madmen. id112

Prabhupāda: Madman means when one becomes frustrated, he becomes mad. That is the… id113

Karandhara: But the people after them, they think that their lives were very great. They read their books and accept their authority. id114

Prabhupāda: There are two classes of men. We don't say their life was great. So therefore I say, who will settle? I am right or he is right? Always you will find the madman will say, “I am right.” Another man say, “You are not right; I am right.” Then who will settle up? That is the point. You will find always these two classes of men. You say you are right, I say I am right. id115

Candanācārya: But by committing suicide, didn't he accept that finally death was the only thing that was not absurd? id116

Prabhupāda: Yes. For them the death is the only solution. id117

Prajāpati: Rascals like such books, Prabhupāda, because it requires no commitment on their part. It requires no commitment. To read such men—“Oh, yes, that's very nice. I can read them and put them down.” But it doesn't require me to trust in God or to do anything for the world. id118

Prabhupāda: No. Books are written in favor: “If you want to know more about us, then here is book.” Because from books, generally, we get knowledge. Otherwise book is not required. [observing in sky] Very brilliant light. id119

Śrutakīrti: It's an airplane. id120

Prabhupāda: And if the light is little more brilliant, that means finished. Eh? If the same light becomes little more brilliant, that means finished, fall down immediately. It is a big aeroplane? [break] id121

Prajāpati: Several years ago you gave a series of lectures in New York on atonement that are very famous, and devotees, they relish them very much. Prāyaścitta. id122

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. id123

Prajāpati: And this is also in Christian theology to a large extent, plus another concept called, er, feeling very sorry for one's sinful activities. id124

Prabhupāda: Repentant. Repentant? id125

Prajāpati: No so much repentance; it's called… id126

Karandhara: The classic idea is that one goes away and just lives in a state of remorse, solitude and remorse, thinking how sinful and wretched he is, and performing severe austerities. id127

Prabhupāda: Huh? id128

Karandhara: Going away, living in a monastery, performing severe austerities, and always contemplating how sinful and wretched we are and how we must suffer. id129

Prabhupāda: Everyone is suffering. But one who knows that he is suffering, he is intelligent. id130

[aside to passerby:] Good morning. id131

Everyone is suffering. If you are not suffering, why you have covered? Why you have covered? Because you are suffering, is it not? Why you are not naked body? Because we are suffering, therefore we have covered. It is a fact. And if somebody says, “No, we are not suffering,” then he's a madman. So everyone is suffering. One who knows it, he is intelligent man. That's all. id132

Rūpānuga: They have no positive philosophy. They stress guilt. They are always guilty. They have no positive philosophy. id133

Prabhupāda: Yes. No… Then the next question is that “If there is a positive philosophy to mitigate the suffering, why don't you accept it?” Just like when one body is suffering, I say, “Take this blanket. Cover.” If he says, “No, I am not going to take it,” is that sane man? id134

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then he will continue suffering if he doesn't accept. id135

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our proposition that everyone is suffering, and struggling how to stop the suffering. This is material world. Everyone is suffering. And the struggle is called progress. So we are offering something also: “Here is something, you accept it, and your sufferings will be mitigated.” Nobody can say, “No, we are not suffering.” That is insanity. Everyone is suffering. id136

Prajāpati: This suffering comes from our sinful activities? id137

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]: “I shall give you protection from sinful reaction of your life.” Because you are suffering for sinful reaction. Suffering means if you disobey the laws of the state, you suffer. That is sinful. Because you have disobeyed the laws of the state, you are suffering. id138

Candanācārya: If one has difficulty becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is that suffering? id139

Prabhupāda: Eh? id140

Candanācārya: That is also suffering? id141

Prabhupāda: No. What is the difficulty, first of all? id142

Candanācārya: You once said that if someone is not attracted to chanting, then he is being punished by Yamarāja. id143

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you, if by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you can save your suffering, what is the difficulty not to accept it? Everyone is suffering in this material world, And everyone is trying to get out of the suffering. That is also a fact. id144

Prajāpati: They try to get out of suffering by committing more sins. id145

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not know how to get out of the suffering. [break] id146

Candanācārya: …to tell people who think that they are not suffering that they are actually suffering. id147

Prabhupāda: That means it is difficult to teach insane person. That's all. Therefore the best means is, without teaching, “Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra,” and takes little prasādam and go home. Then his insanity will be cured. Then he will be all right. This is our point. We don't sermonize in the beginning. We simply request, “All right, you are very good. Nobody is more intelligent than you. Yes. Please come here, sit down, chant, dance. It is very nice. And takes little prasādam. Go home.” That is our program. Then we teach. When he comes to his little sanity, then he will be… [break] id148

Prajāpati: …Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition. id149

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that “I have infected this disease.” So simply thinking, “Oh, I have been infected by this disease,” that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence. id150

Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively. id151

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must go to the state and offer, “Please kill me.” Then state may consider. “I have committed this murder, so the law is: I must give my life. So I am prepared.” Then immediately he will be excused. Yes. [break] id152

Karandhara: …a devotee came and told Prabhupāda that he committed some wrongdoing, and he was very, very sorry, and he was crying and very sorry, and you said, “That's all right. That's nice. Now do something about it. Engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service.” id153

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes, patient: “Sir, I am suffering like this,” “All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine.” [break] id154

Prajāpati: …what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say, “That's all right. You may do those things.” Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you: “Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life,” like that. id155

Prabhupāda: No good man will say like that. That is the difference between good man and bad man. The same example as I told, that one blind man is going this side, and another man says, “Yes, you are all right. Go this side.” This is going on. Either he does not know, this rascal who says, “Yes, you can go this side,” that he will fall down in the ocean and die. Both of them do not know. So one blind man, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31]. One blind man is giving direction to another blind man. This is going on. Therefore Vedic injunction is to take direction: “You must go to guru.” That is in… Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Gurum eva, “Must go.” Then he will get right direction. Otherwise misguided. [break] id156

Candanācārya: …there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then? id157

Prabhupāda: When? Guru or… First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru; you are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka: saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam. id158

A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished… Fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucketful of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud. So therefore guru is the cloud. He has taken the mercy from the ocean, or from God, and he pours the mercy. Immediately the fire is extinguished, and you are saved. This is the saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya…. id159

One who has received mercy from the Supreme, he can save. Nobody can save. Your so-called fire brigade or bucketful of water will not save. That is not possible. So as these rascals are simply trying to extinguish the blazing fire of material existence by so-called bucketful of water, it will not save. It will be waste of time. If the cloud comes, then it will be saved. So guru is the cloud. That is… Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanā…. Ghanāghanatvam means cloud, dense cloud. As soon as there is dense cloud and pours water—finished. All blazing fire finished. That is guru. id160

And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, biṣāya-biṣānale dibāniśi hiyā jvale [from Prārthanā]: “My heart is burned by the fire of this material existence.” Tori bare nā kainu upāya: “I did not make any arrangement for getting out of this fire.” Golokero prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana: “Now this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is coming from Goloka, from the spiritual world. I did not takes care of it,” he is lamenting. So this is the fire extinguishing instrument: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this age, and the fire will be extinguished. [break] …prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. [break] id161

Prajāpati: …śaktyāveśa-avatāra? id162

Prabhupāda: Guru is the mercy incarnation of God. Mercy incarnation. God is kind to everyone, so He is teaching everyone from within, but still, to make it still more explicit, He sends His mercy in the form of guru. id163

Prajāpati: The śaktyāveśa-avatāra means Kṛṣṇa coming in a form of a living entity empowered by Him for some special purpose. id164

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. id165

Candanācārya: Guru is greater than śaktyāveśa-avatāra. id166

Prabhupāda: No. Guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: “In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa.” Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena, as Kṛṣṇa is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted. id167

But the next question is: “Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?” No. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya:Guru is exalted because he is very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa.” Here it is clear. Not that he is respected as Kṛṣṇa, therefore he has become Kṛṣṇa. This is Māyāvāda: “He has become Kṛṣṇa.” No. Kintu: “But don't think that there is no more Kṛṣṇa. Finished. Guru is here.” Just like the Māyāvādī says, just like this rascal Guruji, that “I am Kṛṣṇa.” Not that. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He is the most confidential servant. Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is clear explanation. id168

Prajāpati: When we hear… id169

Prabhupāda: Although he is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but he never says that “I am Kṛṣṇa.” He says, “I am servant of Kṛṣṇa.” And actually he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we distinguish in this way that sevya-bhagavān and sevaka-bhagavān: “worshipable God and worshiper God.” You follow? God, but worshiper God. id170

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Person Bhāgavatam. id171

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Both of them God, but one God is worshipable, and another God is worshiper. So for the disciple, both of them are worshipable because both of them are God. That is the distinction. Sevya-bhagavān, sevaka-bhagavān. id172

Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear from the words…, the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa. id173

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased, because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are… What we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. We are saying that “You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa.” We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance. id174

Rūpānuga: You are the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who claims to be servant. The rest of them take Kṛṣṇa's position. id175

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. Because they are not guru. id176

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are called Māyāvādīs. id177

Prabhupāda: They are not guru. That is the difficulty, that one who is not guru, he is taking the place of guru. Therefore people are misguided. id178

Rūpānuga: One man who has written a book on these different so-called spiritual movements has remarked that Your Divine Grace is the only one of all… The big difference between our movement and the others is that you claim to be servant, and the others claim to be God. id179

Prabhupāda: He has written? He has written? Oh. id180

Rūpānuga: It is in a book talking about different spiritual movements in this country. id181

Prabhupāda: So he has appreciated this. id182

Rūpānuga: He has made that remark. He has noted that difference. id183

Prabhupāda: [laughing] Therefore I am unique. Yes. Then I can be…, become unique. Yes. I am not amongst the rascals. id184

Rūpānuga: I tell the students… They ask me how they can distinguish between gurus. I tell them the real guru claims to be servant, and not God. I said only one guru says he is servant—that is Śrīla Prabhupāda. And they can understand that. id185

Candanācārya: Sincere people will appreciate that. id186

Prabhupāda: Yes. id187

Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees have said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive in our… id188

Prabhupāda: No, I am servant. [laughs] I have no exalted position. Servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sat down in a place where people were washing their feet. Yes. [break] …a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I came to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa has sent so many representatives to help me. I consider like that. Without your help I could not do. So I wanted Kṛṣṇa's help, so Kṛṣṇa has sent you. Therefore you are representative of Kṛṣṇa. That is my conception. id189

Prajāpati: We're just dogs, Prabhupāda. id190

Prabhupāda: No. id191

Prajāpati: Barking at your feet, that's all. id192

Prabhupāda: That is your humbleness. That is nice. id193

Prajāpati: It's not humbleness. That's fact. id194

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] id195

Candanācārya: …śāstra that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple does not accept. id196

Prabhupāda: What is that? id197

Candanācārya: He says that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple will not accept. id198

Prabhupāda: Who says? id199

Candanācārya: Jayādvaita told me that in the śāstra it says that. So when the guru says that the disciple is nice, he does not accept. id200

Prabhupāda: [laughing] That is very good quality. Ah, Jayādvaita has written like that? [laughs] id201

Candanācārya: No, he was telling me that it was in one śāstra. id202

Prabhupāda: No, it is very intelligent. Yes. Just like guru does not accept, although he is worshiped like Kṛṣṇa, he never accepts that “I am Kṛṣṇa.” That is our paramparā system. Śiṣya has to accept guru as Kṛṣṇa, but guru will never accept that he is Kṛṣṇa. This is our relationship. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Samasta-śāstraiḥ, all revealed scripture. id203

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the unique quality of Vaiṣṇava. id204

Prabhupāda: Yes. id205

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowhere we can find these things. id206

Prabhupāda: Yes. id207

Candanācārya: One time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said, “I will go to hell,” but none of your disciples accepted that. id208

Prajāpati: Actually, coming to this country, this is hell. id209

Prabhupāda: No, I am not in hell. I am with the devotees, so how can I say I am in hell? [laughs] [break] Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vās: “My duty is to serve my guru and live with the devotees.” That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. “My mission is to serve my guru, but live with the devotees.” id210

tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vās
janame janame mor ei abhilāṣ
[Nāma-saṅkīrtana 7]

“This is my desire, life after life.” A guru or bhakta does not aspire that he is going to Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa. “Never mind.” But their only desire, his only desire, is that to serve the predecessor ācārya and live with devotee. That's all. This is the only ambition. [break] …says, tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ [Padma Purāṇa]. Where…, the place where the devotees are glorifying the Lord, Kṛṣṇa is there. So if Kṛṣṇa is there with the devotees, then wherever devotees are there, that is Vaikuṇṭha. That is Vaikuṇṭha. id211

Just like our temple. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Because the devotees are chanting the glories of the Lord, so that is Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha is not limited. Vaikuṇṭha… As Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself, similarly, Vaikuṇṭha can also be expand, Vṛndāvana can expand. So wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, that is Vai… And where is not Kṛṣṇa? And that is to be appreciated. Then if anyone appreciates Kṛṣṇa everywhere, then he is living in the Vaikuṇṭha; he is not living in hell or Los Angeles. [break] id212

Svarūpa Dāmodara: …where pure devotee goes, that place is immediately purified as soon as he is there. id213

Prabhupāda: Yes, because Kṛṣṇa helps. As soon as the pure devotee sings, Kṛṣṇa immediately comes there. So it becomes Vaikuṇṭha. [break] id214

Prajāpati: We are more fortunate than gopīs, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Walking with you on the beach is better than dancing rāsa dance in Vṛndāvana. id215

Prabhupāda: [laughing] It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. id216

[break] …prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. id217

[break] …enjoy, and be satisfied in the association of devotees. id218

[break] …article on the subject of “Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist,” and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled; he becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, “Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord.” Then your attempt is successful. [break] id219

We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. id220

[break] …uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam [SB 1.5.22]. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is—because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman—we have simply said, “Kṛṣṇa Supreme.” That's all. [laughs] Never mind what I am. [break] …janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is understanding of Supreme. “After many, many births, one who is wise, he will accept Kṛṣṇa and surrender.” id221

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
[Bg. 7.19]

“He is mahātmā, great soul, who is accepting like that, that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything.” id222

Prajāpati: You are the supermost mahātmā, Śrīla Prabhupāda. id223

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. id224

Prajāpati: Thank you so much. id225

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Prabhupāda. All glories to Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end] id226

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