Viṣṇujana: And there were only two Hindu gentlemen in the village, and still, the Muhammadans received us and arranged for our kīrtana and prasādam distribution.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Viṣṇujana: We felt it was Nityānanda’s grace.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Viṣṇujana: First we were afraid. Haridāsa Brahmacārī told me: “Oh, these are Muhammadans. They’ll not help us in any way, nor will they accept prasādam.” But then I said, “Let us go…”
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe… In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Muhammadans. Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s time, even the Hindus were against His movement, the brāhmaṇas. They complained to the Kazi that “This is not Hindu movement.” You see? The saṅkīrtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.
Nitāi: That’s similar to what happened in Bombay.
Nitāi: That’s similar to what happened…
Nitāi: …in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: The Hindus, they wanted to break our temple, and they broke part of it. You do not know? Oh, how is that? There was a great agitation. By the instruction of the Municipality, being bribed by the other party. You, you have not heard that we had so much…?
Indian man: Not heard, no.
Prabhupāda: How is that? It was very well…
Jayapatākā: In our exhibition booth, we have put up articles about it. India exhibition. Bombay has exhibited the matter.
Prabhupāda: [japa] [break] …to take evening walk, this part, on the field, agricultural field. [break] …if you have any land to purchase immediately, then I can ask Mahadevia. He can pay for that. [break] … without machine, they cannot sleep. They must smell, “Here is a machine.” Then they can sleep. There was a fisherman. So at, in the evening… That is still in India. In the evening you can ask shelter from any householder’s house, they’ll give you shelter. So he came in the evening, “Sir, I want to pass night in your home.” “All right, you are welcome.” So the fisher basket, fishing basket, “You keep this here, outside, and you sleep inside.” So whole day, he was restless. Then whole night, he could not sleep. Then the master said, “You are not sleeping?” “No, sir.” “Why?” “Now, because my baskets are kept outside.” “What is in the basket?” “No, unless I smell, I cannot sleep.” [laughter] So these Americans, unless they smell about machine, they cannot sleep. “Habit is the second nature.” For ordinary muscle work, they’ll bring so many machine. I have seen. Karandhara was doing. At least that machine must come, [makes sound like machine:] kat-kat-kat-kat-kat-kat-kat-kat, making hole. That machine is compulsory.
Indian devotee: Recently, Prabhupāda, I saw one machine for…
Indian devotee: …for rubbing the nails, there is a battery operated machine.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Machine for cleansing, so many things.
Indian devotee: And for nail rubbing also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For massaging. Everything.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: They have for brushing the teeth.
Prabhupāda: Oh, very…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: You just hold the toothbrush, and the machine makes it go up and down.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Some scientists, they want to make all the different body parts. They want to give artificial arm, then artificial feet, and they’re, they’re spending all kinds of money and time making these complicated machinery to do the same thing that the body is doing. And their ultimate goal, these scientists were stating, their ultimate goal was to make a complete human body so that the person never has to die, but he can always change his body just before it breaks.
Prabhupāda: He cannot save himself. He can make a machine which will not die, but he will die. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: How much perfect he is, that you can consider, that he’s making something perfect which will not die, but he will die. So he’s imperfect. So how his machine is perfect? This is common argument. He’s imperfect. But he cannot make such machine that he will not die.
Satsvarūpa: They say in the future they will…
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is, that is a… Kicking, they on their face. That is the only loophole on which we can kick on their face. You see? They are making machine perfect, but they cannot make themselves perfect. Why don’t you ask that “Why don’t you make a machine that you will not die? Your machine will not die, I accept. You are so perfect. But why you will die? Why he will die?” What is their answer?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: They say that they will get to a point where…, when each cause of their death, maybe, say, a bad heart, then they can get an artificial heart.
Prabhupāda: All right, you can get everything. You will do it. But why don’t you do it for yourself that you will not die?
Satsvarūpa: They’ll say, “That’s all right. I’m working for posterity so that people who come in future generations…”
Prabhupāda: What posterity? You cannot take help from your machine. What posterity you will take? It is nonsense. You are starving, and you, you want to speak that “I will distribute prasādam.” What is this nonsense? You are starving, and you are proud of distributing food to others. Is that very good reason, a reasonable proposal? What…? First of all, you stop your starvation. Then you can say, “Now I have stopped my starvation, I’ll distribute food to the hungry men.”
Siddha-svarūpānanda: All the scientists and leaders are all like that. They don’t have the vaguest idea. They don’t have the vaguest idea…
Prabhupāda: Therefore we…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: …of anything.
Prabhupāda: …call them rascals and fools. They may advertise themselves as scientist, but we take them as rascals and fools.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Some of them so much want to be God, they’re thinking they’re going to create life and make bodies and this and that.
Prabhupāda: The only question is that first of all, keep your life. Then you cure another life. Life in you is already there. Now keep it. Protect it by some machine or by some chemical. Then you talk all this nonsense. What do you think, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja?
Viṣṇujana: At the fairs in the United States, they have exhibits of what the scientists are doing, and one scientist has actually invented a machine, costs one hundred thousand dollars, and this machine can take the head of a man from his body and keep the brain cells still going. And they expect that this machine, they expect… They haven’t done it to anyone because no one will do it…
Prabhupāda: That expectation is always there. Any fool can expect anything. That is another thing.
Viṣṇujana: But they’ve done it with goat head.
Prabhupāda: We are concerned what you are doing now. That’s all. We are not for expectation, future hope. We do not believe in that. “Trust no future, however pleasant.” It may be pleasant to you, but we don’t believe it. You rascals, you can feel, but history shows that after death, no brain works. So we take this simple conclusion, that this brain is useless. So am I right or wrong?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: You are right.
Prabhupāda: Sudāmā Vipra, you are very critical. You can say. Am I right or wrong?
Sudāmā Vipra: You’re right. [laughter]
Prabhupāda: Thank you. That’s… Svarūpa Dāmodara asked the scientist that “You are beginning life from chemicals. Suppose I give you chemicals. Can you make life?” “That I cannot say.” This is their proposal. This is their… All rascals. And they’re wasting public money and making other fools. They’re going to the Candraloka and this loka, Venus. Simply wasting time. This remark I gave in the newspapers sometimes in San Francisco…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: When they asked about the moon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. It is simply waste of time and energy, that’s all. And in 1968 I wrote that Easy Journey: “And this is all childish.”
Prabhupāda: Yes. Have you read that?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes, yes. It is very nice.
Prabhupāda: So we can boldly say on the strength of Vedic literature that all these attempts are childish, and those who are attempting, they’re all fools and rascals. That’s all. Now they’re silent about moon expedition. They’re trying to go to Venus. What happened to moon, moon planet?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yeah, right.
Prabhupāda: Another diversion, that’s all.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Just wasting money and time.
Prabhupāda: Another diversion of attention so that they can exploit public money in that way. And the public is also fooled that they believe all this nonsense.
Viṣṇujana: In the United States, Prabhupāda, the rocks that they brought back from the moon are being displayed in all the different cities. They have little small pieces of the rocks in the moon. And people stand in long lines…
Prabhupāda: Just see…
Viṣṇujana: …to come and see these little pieces of rock.
Prabhupāda: …how much rascal you are.
Viṣṇujana: And they have guards all around the little rocks.
Viṣṇujana: With guns, with guns.
Prabhupāda: Oh, guards.
Viṣṇujana: Guards with guns, round the rocks, so no one will steal.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: That is their deity. They are worshiping. They have guards.
Indian devotee: They don’t pray… God, who has made all of this. What God [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager somewhere in Western country. And he brought some lotions. So he said that “I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up.” So he became afraid, because the scientists do that. So… “So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions” or something, “otherwise I’ll mix it.” So he gave him that check. And… Because they were… “It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up.” So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, “This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table.” So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin, that’s all. Such fools are there. You see? It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That’s all. And if you go to such foundation that “Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books,” “No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin.”
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Rational. They think they are very rational.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rational… A dog is also rational. But a dog is dog, a man is man. Dog, if a dog is called, “Hut,” he’s not rational? He’ll stop immediately. So is not rational?
Prabhupāda: That is rational—one who has got reason. So “This man wants to check me,” so he stops. For eating, he has rational, what is his eatable. Dog does not like preparation made with too much ghee. They will like meat, rotten meat, and dried bones. That is rational. “This is my food.”
Prabhupāda: Yes. And similarly, hog also, he likes to eat stool than halavā. He has got rationality. As you will not eat stool, you will like halavā, you have got rationality, then hog has got rationality. He’ll not eat halavā, he’ll eat stool. So where is the want of rationality? Why don’t you eat stool? That is rationality. So similarly, he does not eat halavā. So where is the difference between you in the matter of rationality? You deny something; he denies something. Where is want of rationality?
Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda has said that in his previous life he had a pet pig, and he used to offer the pig sweet, but the pig would take the sweet and… He would not eat it. He would roll it in dirt. And when it is filled with dirt, then only he would eat.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: It tasted so bad, he had to have something that tasted good around it so that he could get it down.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] It is not for the hog, but a human being… I had a friend, if you give him rasagullā, he’ll want little salt. Rasagullā with little salt he’ll eat. Without salt, he cannot eat. And my father, he was, at the last stage of his stay, some rice mixed with milk. While eating that, he’ll take a little curry also. [laughs] So it is a taste.
Jayapatākā: Paramahaṁsa and Parivrājakācārya were preaching in… Where was that? The East? What is that nation? Siam?
Jayapatākā: Thailand. And there they would offer the people rasagullā, but they would put soy sauce on it.
Jayapatākā: They would put this bitter sauce on it. Then only they would take.
Prabhupāda: And in Burma, my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch. So when they were frying purī, the nice ghee, all the tenants, [sounding disgusted] “Oh! What you are…!?” [laughter] They cannot tolerate. But in Burma, there is a preparation which is called naphi. The naphi means that a…, a big jar will be kept on the door, and whatever animals, insect, cockroaches will die, they’ll put in that. And during rainy season, it will be filled with water. And it will be kept for years. Then… And this bad smell was so terrible that if somebody would open the lid, it will immediately create very bad smell. So after some years, they will strain the water and keep in bottle. And when there is festival, they’ll supply it in small… That is called naphi. And they’ll take it very pleasantly. And when they were frying ghee, “Oh! What you are doing, this?!”
Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that,
nānā yoni sadā phire, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare,
tāra janma adhah-pate yāya,
karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakale viṣera bhāṇḍa,
amṛta baliyā yebā khāya
Karma-kāṇḍa. There are three kāṇḍas: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. So upāsanā-kāṇḍa is bhakti. So instead of accepting this upāsanā-kāṇḍa, worshiping the Supreme, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], if one takes to the other processes, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, they are viṣera bhāṇḍa—they’re all poison pots. The result is, if they take to that path, then their this transmigration of the soul will continue, and they’ll have to eat all nasty things. Because this time you may be human being, and next time you may be hog. Huh? So this is karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakale viṣera bhāṇḍa, the all poison pots. Simply bhakti-kāṇḍa we have to take. Otherwise our life is at risk. The jñāna-kāṇḍa is also not safe, because their ultimate goal of jñāna-kāṇḍa is to merge into Brahman. But there, they cannot stay. Because in Brahman simply it is eternal life, eternity, but there is no ānanda. But we are seeking ānanda. In the Brahman… Suppose if you are asked that “You will eternally live in this land,” will you like that? “You’ll never die. You’ll live eternally, but nobody will come here. Nobody will talk with you.” Will you like that?
Devotee: No. Nobody would.
Prabhupāda: So the Brahman realization is like that. Every living entity, he wants ānanda. Ānanda means just like we are walking together, talking together. This is ānanda. If I would have walked alone, it would have been no ānanda. I do not like. Nobody likes. So ānanda means there must be entourage. Therefore ānanda is with Kṛṣṇa. When we play with Kṛṣṇa, we dance with Kṛṣṇa, talk with Kṛṣṇa, serve Kṛṣṇa, take care of Kṛṣṇa, then there is ānanda. And simply to become one with the Brahman, then you will have to fall down again. Therefore jñāna-kāṇḍa is not perfect. And karma-kāṇḍa is…, you can migrate from one body to another or one planet to another. You’ll be brahmāṇḍa bhramite. You have to wander. And jñāna-kāṇḍa means you merge. That is also intolerable. Therefore unless you come to bhakti-kāṇḍa, there is no question of real life and bliss. That is the conclusion.
karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakale viṣera bhāṇḍa,
amṛta baliyā yebā khāya
nānā yoni brahman kore, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare
[Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura]
Kadarya. This is kadarya. So many nice food. Yes. And before this movement, in Europe and America, they were eating all these kadaryas, so many type of kadaryas. Their food is only to boil the meat. And when it is boiled, mix with little salt and black pepper and take it. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: And after eating meat, then seven-hundred-years-old loaf. Cut it and add with little butter. That’s all. And then take wine, much. Kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. Now they’re eating rasagullā. Am I right or wrong?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I didn’t hear what you said. Now they’re eating…
Jayapatākā: Previously they were only eating meat. Now they’re taking rasagullā.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Oh, yes.
Jayapatākā: So their taste has improved.
Devotee: [sound of loud kīrtana] That is our kīrtana party?
Jayapatākā: Ācchā. The way back we passed. Do you want to go back yet, or around to the end?
Prabhupāda: Eh? [break] In every life there is āvaraṇātmikā-śakti [Bg. 7.15]. He’ll think that “I am very well situated.” Even in the hog’s life. That is māyā. Similarly, even if you are thinking, “Now we have got human body. You are well situated than the hog,” that is also mistake. That is also mistake. “I am European, American, I have got so comfortable…” Everything is wrong. Because you have to transmigrate. You do not know what is the next life. So what is the meaning of this well situated. That is the mistake. That is māyā. You are not sure that you’ll continue this life. You’ll have to die. You have to accept. So this is māyā. Somebody well situated, he’s thinking, “Oh, I haven’t got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am well situated. I am European,” “I am American.”
Jayapatākā: Watch out here. [break]
Prabhupāda: [kīrtana party in background] That is our purpose, that “Europeans and Americans will come, and they will dance here with the chanting, 'Jaya Śacīnandana!’ ” So that is being done.
Indian devotee: That is being done. By the mercy of Prabhupāda Mahārāja, everything has become possible.
Prabhupāda: So when they chant and dance, I simply remember Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. That’s all. I pray to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, “Now they have come to your shelter. Give them protection.” That’s all. What can I do more? I cannot do anything more. [break]
Indian devotee: …bhakti-mārga. And ours is also bhakti-mārga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are Vaiṣṇava.
Indian devotee: Then what is the difference in our philosophy and…
Prabhupāda: No, that is not different. That is variety, that they worship Bāla-Kṛṣṇa and we worship Kiśora-Kṛṣṇa. We worship Bāla-Kṛṣṇa also. Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, they worship all kinds of pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. But they specially stress on Bāla-Kṛṣṇa, child Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual variety. There is no difference. That is not difference. Cit-vaicitra. The exact name is cit-vaicitra. Cit means spiritual. Vaicitra means varieties. [break] Where this road goes?
Jayapatākā: This one goes down on the riverside[?].
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So… [break]
Devotee: …Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, very prominent? When Lord Caitanya came, He made the worship of…
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Devotee: …Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa very prominent.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Devotee: The Vaiṣṇavas before…
Prabhupāda: No, other Vaiṣṇavas. But… The only… This Vaiṣṇava party, they stress on Bāla-Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla. We also, we have got our Gopāla, as Mādhavendra Purī installed a Gopāla. That Gopāla is now worshiped, Nāthadvāra, by the Vallabha-sampradāya. That is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Deity. It is admitted in the court. [break] …the modern civilization is that they do not know that this, there is transmigration of the soul, and this constant change of body is not very good. They do not know this. Neither they do know that there is change of body. Neither they feel that “The constant change of body is not very good. If there is any remedy?” These rascals, they do not find the final remedy. They are busy with the temporary problems. Real problem they set aside. [break] …simply being bewildered by the three guṇas, sattva-rajo-tamo-guṇa, they do not know the ultimate goal is Kṛṣṇa. They do not know it. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: It’s better this way.
Jayapatākā: Let’s go down this side, this way. [break]
Siddha-svarūpānanda: …body when it’s old and wears out, and yet they’re spending all their energy…
Prabhupāda: No, he desires. He creates his body. Just like the…, sometimes the Muhammadans, they think that tiger is the best life. Sera. Sera. Wah sera haya. Means to become a tiger is the perfection of… You become sera. That’s all. Kṛṣṇa gives… He is within the heart. “All right, I’ll give you chance. Become a sera.” But when he becomes sera, he does not eat for month. You’ll never find a sera very fatty, because he cannot eat. Every animal knows, “There is a tiger,” they avoid. By chance, he can hunt over.
Viṣṇujana: The farrow bird.
Viṣṇujana: He’ll call.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. “You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood.” All facility is—the nails, the teeth—given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that “If I could become like this, I would have been happy.” So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. “All right, you become this.” This is transmigration. This is transmigration. [break] …yathāndhair upa… We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, “All right, you take this chance; you become like this.” Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. “You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma.” Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam… [Bg. 18.66]. That will be beneficial for you, the most confidential instruction.
There is that story that one old woman, she was suffering, and she had to collect woods from the forest and sell in the market. So one day, how do you say, she was praying to Kṛṣṇa, or God, that “Kindly help me. I am in very poverty-stricken.” So one day, she was carrying that load of fuel. It fell down. So nobody was there to help him [her]. So she began to cry, “Who will help me?” So she began to pray to God, “Kindly help me.” And God came: “What do you want?” “Who are You, Sir?” “I am God.” “Kindly help me to take this burden on my head.” Yes. “All right.” [chuckles] From God, she’s asking, “Please help me to get this burden on my head.” That’s all. So everyone is going on, “Let my family be very happy, my son be married. He may… Let him be pass M.A. examination.” But it is the same thing: “Give me the burden on my head.” This is the prayer. Mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. The life was meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and worship Him, and he’s asking, “Give me the burden on my head.” Therefore mūḍha, rascal, fool. He’s asking something which will never make him happy, even by merging into the effulgence, Brahman effulgence. It will never make him happy. But he does not know. Therefore he’s mūḍha, rascal.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: That’s a very clear example.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Very clear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is asking, “Please help me to get this burden on my head.” Everyone is asking. [break] …Kṛṣṇa mantra means asking nothing from Kṛṣṇa, but only praying, “Please engage me in Your service.” This is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now let him engage, whatever service He likes. I don’t dictate that “Give me this service.” That is also sense gratification. As soon as I’ll say that “Engage me in this type of service,” that is also sense gratification. When one surrenders fully, that “Engage me in Your service in whatever way You like,” that is pure devotion. You cannot dictate Kṛṣṇa. Because He wants, sarva-dharmān…, “First of all surrender, then I will give you. I will allot what kind of service you can do.” Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva… [Bg. 18.66]. But if I dictate, then Kṛṣṇa will be…, “All right, you take this.” Then you again become unhappy. Don’t dictate Kṛṣṇa. Be dictated. That is happiness. But everyone is dictating, “Please give me this. Give me this. Give me that. Give me that. Give me this.” Why should you dictate Kṛṣṇa? As soon as I dictate, that is my sense gratification. That is not pure devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Make zero all your desires. It doesn’t matter, this desire or that desire. Any kind of desire. Whatever you desire, that is material. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. That is pure devotee.
Devotee: That takes practice.
Devotee: That takes practice, to stop desiring for oneself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore…
Devotee: You have to practice…
Prabhupāda: …the practice is that you should simply desire what your spiritual master says. Don’t desire yourself. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you fulfill the desires of your spiritual master, then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased.“ Because he’s the representative, the immediate representative, boss, if you satisfy him, the master, supreme master, is also satisfied. If he gives report, “This clerk is doing nice,” that is sufficient. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. This is the injunction.
Jayapatākā: So human life was no advantage. Only because you have come, now it can be advantage.
Jayapatākā: Human life is no special advantage. Only if you come, the spiritual master comes, then it can be some advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Vedic injunction is, gurum eva abhigacchet: “You must go to a bona fide spiritual master if you want to make your life perfect.” There is no question whether I shall go or not. You must! That is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. He has no spiritual master. He’s not going to obey anyone. He’s working in his own whims. That is animal life. Real life here begins.
tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet
samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. [break] And there are many thousands, you’ll find. And we are thinking, “Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?” He’ll never think that “If so many animals are fed by the Supreme,” eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13], “He’s supplying all the necessity. Why not for me or for my other children?” It is māyā that one thinks that “Without me…” Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed… He was always thinking, “Without me, India will be spoiled. India will be spoiled.” It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya. And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India’s karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi’s there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya… Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]: The rascal, being bewildered by, he’s thinking, “Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director.” So I requested Gandhi, “Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā.” No. He’ll be killed, that’s all. This is the way, going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya? The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That’s all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That’s a fact.
Indian devotee: [Bengali]
Indian devotee: They’re self-interested. They’re making money and forgetting the public.
Prabhupāda: That’s all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā: Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.
Indian devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After…
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that “You are doing so much for the Muhammadans. The Muhammadans are obedient. So why don’t you stop this cow killing?” “How can I interfere with their religious…?” Just see.
Indian devotee: This is…
Prabhupāda: “Cow killing is religion.” And he was such a fool that if somebody said that “Cutting the throat of others is my religion,” he would allow, “Yes, you can do that.”
Jayapatākā: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda? [break]
Indian devotee: …proof that the cause of cancer is beef-eating.
Indian devotee: I have…
Prabhupāda: Leprosy. Leprosy is also due to beef-eating. [aside:] Get it folded.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: The third greatest cause of accidental death in, in the world…
Prabhupāda: Is intoxication.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: It is…
Prabhupāda: Yes, this drunkard. Especially the drunkard, they collide.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I think that’s the second.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: But the…, this one is the choking on meat at dinner table and dying, suffocating. It’s very widespread. And in restaurants, while they’re eating meat, they get so into eating, they want to swallow to eat the next piece. So they, before chewing enough, they have a big lump of meat in the mouth, and they swallow and they choke. They get caught. So in many big restaurants, they have these fancy forks like this, that if somebody’s choking, they go to the table, a very nice waiter, and he sticks the thing down the throat and pulls out the meat. Then the person can continue eating. But it is a very high cause of death in the world. They choke on meat.
Prabhupāda: Just like dog. Dog, if you give…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Because the teeth are not made…
Prabhupāda: …meat. [makes sound of wolfing food] Like dog. Yes.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: But the dog doesn’t choke so much. Well, sometimes they choke, though.
Prabhupāda: Dog is a natural animal.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: He has teeth for meat.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: The human being, they don’t have so much teeth for meat. So they’re trying to eat, and then they choke. [break]
Prabhupāda: …sness movement is all-embracing, all problems. People should carefully study and take it. Then they will be happy. Otherwise, all plan are nonsense—the scientist, the philosopher, the… All rascals. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very learned, but māyā has killed them already. They have no knowledge. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Just see. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Life is created by God. They’ll not accept. “Life is created from dirt,” that’s all. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Where is the instance that you create life by chemicals? “That we shall see in the future.” Kick him immediately on his face with boot. Rascal. Will you accept any check, “It will be paid in future”? Will you accept? So why shall I accept this rascal’s theory? If somebody gives me check, one million dollar, payable three hundred years after, shall I be inclined to accept such check? So why these fools accepting this post-dated check?
Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda, they say they’ve already done so much. The scientists will say…
Prabhupāda: What they have done? What they have done? Why people are starving? What you have done?
Viṣṇujana: But they’ll say we have created so much machineries and gone to the moon.
Prabhupāda: You cannot eat machine. You produce. You produce rice, wheat in the machine. What you have done? You have simply misled the people that instead of tilling the ground, they have come to machine, and there is no food.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: You have done this. You have, on the false plea that “We’ll give you five hundred rupees salary. You come in the city and be engaged,” oh, he saw, “Oh, I am simply producing one food. If I get five hundred rupees, then I’ll go to cinema, I’ll have good dress.” Now there is no food even. You have done this. That’s all. What is the benefit of this machine? Machine benefit is that we were purchasing, when there was no so much machine, in our childhood, three rupees, four annas per maund, first-class rice. Now we are purchasing one kg…
Indian devotee: Ten rupees kg. For one rupee… wheat first-class wheat, Punjab.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that “We have done so much.” What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.
Indian devotee: With the machines they’re mixing stones in the rice.
Indian devotee: With machine help, they’re mixing stone in the rice.
Prabhupāda: That’s it. That’s it. That you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India’s…, India’s culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food: produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they’ll not accept. “Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got… We must have the motorcar, motor tire.”
Indian devotee: Farmer sees that a job of three hundred rupees and runs away to city. He will not work in the field. Then there will be no food.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that’s all. That is sufficient food for them. “And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit.” You see. You are making profit, but other…
Indian devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don’t get even for eating? No clothing, no eating. Only profit… What profit will be beneficial?
Prabhupāda: No, but they don’t care for others. But they’re having wine and women with their black-market money. That’s all. They’re satisfied. They do not know… [break] [end]