Prabhupāda: …there should be any difference of amongst ourselves. We may differ from other philosophers, but why there should be any difference of philosophy amongst ourselves?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There seems to be some philosophical difference.
Prabhupāda: That I am asking. What is that philosophical difference? [break]
Madhudviṣa: One of the points, obvious points, that is there is that many of the boys that are working with Siddha-svarūpa feel more allegiance to Siddha-svarūpa than they do to you.
Prabhupāda: That doesn’t matter.
Madhudviṣa: And they distribute his books instead of your books on the street. Which is a fact.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Which is a lie.
Madhudviṣa: Which is a fact.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Why do you do like that? Why do you say like that?
Madhudviṣa: Because I have seen it in New Zealand. I have been there myself.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if he denies that…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: You know that they distribute Prabhupāda’s books, but they can’t give them away as cheaply, that’s all.
Madhudviṣa: Back to Godhead is very cheap. It is twelve cents a piece.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: They give those away. They give those away.
Madhudviṣa: It is twelve cents a piece. You cannot say that.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: But anyway…
Jayatīrtha: One of Siddha-svarūpa’s men bought some Bhagavad-gītās from us in Los Angeles, several cases, so they are distributing Prabhupāda’s books at least as well, along with others.
Prabhupāda: No, I think…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I just bought five thousand dollars’ worth of Bhagavad-gītās.
Madhudviṣa: That’s very good.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: What is it for?
Madhudviṣa: And they give them away.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Thank you. [sarcastically:] Thank you, God.
Prabhupāda: No, no, even giving them away, what is the wrong?
Madhudviṣa: Well, you said we should not give the books away. You said we should sell these books.
Prabhupāda: [chuckles] No, no, he has purchased. He has purchased. Then if you purchase from me and if you give free to others, so what is my loss?
Madhudviṣa: No, there is no loss.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I’m not giving away his books.
Prabhupāda: No, no, even if he gives away, this is not a fault, you see? Suppose there are… In South Africa many Indians are purchasing our books and giving to the library. So somebody will read it. So that is not a fault. If I purchase from you and give it, distribute it free to somebody else, that is not wrong thing.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I don’t think that there’s any difference in philosophical understanding or anything. I think just the basic point that there’s different ways of working, in a sense, and I won’t…
Prabhupāda: So that should be adjusted, because we have to work. If we make differences amongst ourselves, then how work will…?
Guru-kṛpā: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the difference is that we are willing to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to your instructions, but…
Prabhupāda: That should… That should be. That is the…
Guru-kṛpā: But Siddha…, they have their own way; they think they can influence people to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is more or less not fully presenting Kṛṣṇa consciousness in a way of complete surrender—in other words, they are keeping hairs and are not full-time devotees, such as we are—to spread it all over the world.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: You mean they’re not surrendered to you personally, Guru-kṛpā. It means they’re not working with you personally. Unless somebody accepts you or this person or that person…
Guru-kṛpā: I’m not… No one accepts me.
Siddha-svarūpa: …then you get upset.
Prabhupāda: No, I don’t wish to agitate your mind. I want that if there is any difference, that should be adjusted, and we must preach combinedly. That is my point.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: So there is no… As far as… Well, you have to judge yourself. I can’t… As far as I’m concerned, I try to get people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and distribute prasādam, and as far as possible distribute books freely or for charge.
Guru-kṛpā: But the chanting is without surrender to the spiritual master.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: If I’m trying to get people to chant, that’s all I can do. And if that will purify them, then surrender will come. How can I force someone to surrender?
Prabhupāda: No, no, what do you mean by surrender?
Guru-kṛpā: I mean that…
Prabhupāda: Not that everywhere you are preaching, you are expected all of them will be surrendered immediately. That is not expected. Suppose you are preaching amongst hundreds and thousands of men. So it is not expected that all of them will be immediately surrendered. Is it possible?
Madhudviṣa: The point is that many of the men that are following the principles strictly, due to his influence have gone away and have slackened their principles. And that is a fact. Like getting up early for maṅgala ārati. That is not stressed so much. And cutting of the hair. That is not stressed so much.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: How do you know these things? You have never lived with me, nor have you ever heard a lecture I have given.
Madhudviṣa: I have experienced the devotees who have been influenced by you.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now let us make some adjustment [chuckles] and work combinedly. That is my proposal.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the problem is that to work combinedly, they think that that means that I surrender to them and I do everything as they say; otherwise I am not surrendering. So as far as I am concerned, I cannot work with them; there is no possibility of that. And yet I don’t want to make trouble with them, but I have to try to work as best as I can. But there is no way that I’m going to be able to be organized and controlled by them. People who’ve tried to control me before are now spiritually dead and gone, and I’m not going to put myself under the protection of any of these boys who consider themselves to be great sannyāsīs or whatever, and it’s just not possible for me to do it. I’ve tried it before. So I have to try to work as best as I can, not get in their way, and follow your instructions as best as possible, getting people to chant, following the principles myself.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: May I ask a question? What is your feeling about the GBC?
Siddha-svarūpānanda: I don’t know anything about it, and I don’t really care about organizing it. I don’t care about…
Prabhupāda: So why don’t you become a GBC and…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Because I can’t work… There’s no way.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one point: that each of us thinks that our understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only way. We must realize that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is much bigger, much, much bigger than our only concept that “This is bona fide, and this is the only way Prabhupāda wants it.” We must appreciate that Prabhupāda is approving all of these ways, including how Siddha-svarūpa Mahārāja is preaching, and we must be more tolerant and accept each other. This is not un–bona fide. I’ve read his books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda…
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is it. You are bringing in…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: May I ask a question?
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, you have said that in the tree, the Caitanya tree, there is many branches, but they all have to have the same taste.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, he has the taste.
Madhudviṣa: So therefore the essence of the philosophy must be there. And you have also said that the meaning of disciple means discipline. So the devotees have to be trained certain disciplines in their devotional life.
Prabhupāda: Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must be. That should be uniform. Otherwise, śiṣya… Śiṣya, the word śiṣya, it comes from the root, verb, śās-dhātu. Śās. Śās means “ruling.” From this word, śāsana. Śāsana means “government.” Śāstra. Śastra means “weapon,” and śāstra, “scripture,” and śiṣya… These things have come from the one root—śās-dhātu. So śās-dhātu means ruling under discipline. So there is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the word, exact? There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline. So…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: So there is no disagreement with that. I have no disagreement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the point. That is…
Siddha-svarūpānanda: But I consider that discipline and the person being disciplined must be voluntary. He must voluntarily put himself under someone’s discipline.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is… Accepting spiritual master means voluntarily accepting somebody to rule him. There is no question… I have no power to rule over you unless you voluntarily surrender.
Prabhupāda: I am Indian. Why you Americans, you should obey me? You have done it voluntarily. Yes. So, [chuckles] in India they appreciate me only on this point, that I am Indian; how I am controlling so many Americans? That is their appreciation. [laughter] So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender. Yes. Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. The instruction is there in the… They were friends, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. From material point of view, they are equal. He is also belonging to the royal family, he is also belonging to the royal family, and they are cousin-brothers, equal footing, friend. But still, Arjuna said, “Now there is no solution. I become Your disciple.” Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: “I surrender.” And this is sisya, surrender. And then lessons on Bhagavad-gītā began. So we have to surrender voluntarily; otherwise discipline cannot be implemented.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam.
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don’t want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws, we have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.
Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that noncooperation, so “Boycott British court. We are not going on.” So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that “I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?” So the resolution was, “No, we should noncooperate. We don’t want money. We should noncooperate.” So when… He fought in the meeting that “This should be withdrawn.” So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali… He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, “Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?” So he replied, “I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs.” The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position.
So my point is that when the… He fought his best, that “This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court,” but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I’ll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That…, we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should… If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great. We are trying to contribute something to the whole world. It is not a fashion. It is not a fashion. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness, so we are trying to give it to the world, God consciousness, in a systematic way, so that they may be highly benefited. So this is the purpose. But if there is some misunderstanding…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the actual disagreement?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the actual disagreement?
Prabhupāda: No, disagreement in the matter of process. You are thinking this way; he is thinking that way. That is the difference. Otherwise he is also eager to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you are also. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is, both of them are claiming that you are thinking their way.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: No, I can’t…
Prabhupāda: Now that should be adjusted now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. What is the fact?
Prabhupāda: I shall give my verdict which is my way. Then you have to accept.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: My method is…
Prabhupāda: Not your way, not his way. Let me understand what is the way you are trying to follow, what is the way he is trying to follow. Now I shall give my verdict, that “This is the right way.”
Yaśodānandana: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s it. That is the best thing.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: So I am offensive, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: You are agreeable to that?
Prabhupāda: Then thank you, no more talk now. We shall talk later. [break]
Brahmānanda: He should… He should cook?
Prabhupāda: I do not know. What is the harm? But he does not like…
Child: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Bhāvānanda: That short man we passed, Prabhupāda, on the way, coming in?
Prabhupāda: With so much bunch of hair. Who are these men? Oh, they’re working.
Bhāvānanda: They’re paṇḍāl…
Jayapatāka: They are making a paṇḍāl.
Prabhupāda: [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Black and white frame.
Guru-kṛpā: Salt and pepper.
Prabhupāda: Actually, our this Society is United Nation. And if we become disunited, then it is very difficult to adjust. [break] Yes. Linguist.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hindi also?
Prabhupāda: I don’t know. [break]
Yaśodānandana: Acyutānanda Mahārāja just went to Calcutta to arrange everything.
Prabhupāda: What is to arrange in Calcutta?
Yaśodānandana: Well, all the devotees are coming, and they will be going to Śantipur, and when they come back, they will… We’re working a schedule to take all the devotees to the various parikramā spots.
Prabhupāda: No, that’s all right. I mean to say, if we make a procession, then first of all… That is my suggestion. Make the devotees first, chanting, all the devotees. And then the Deity, carrying. And then my carriage, er, my car, and then all the buses. So devotees who become tired, they can sit down in the bus and again go on. And keep one big pot of halavā so that others may be distributed, and the devotees, when they are hungry, they can also eat. [laughter] In this way make. How do you like this arrangement?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We’ll do it.
Hari-śauri: I think you’ll need more than one pot of halavā. [laughter]
Pusta Kṛṣṇa: I think we’ll make devotees on the way.
Prabhupāda: And so long the festival goes on, we shall keep always ready one big pot of halavā. Anyone comes, give him this. Anyone comes to visit. While going, take in a leaf, what is called, leaf cup. Give him halavā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone on the way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That’s up and down this road.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Anyone who comes within the temple…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean…
Guru-kṛpā: The devotees, and then the Deities, then your private car…
Prabhupāda: But that is procession. In the temple…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, cup with prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone should be given prasādam. Yes. Jaya. [kīrtana as Prabhupāda approaches temple] [end]