ISKCON Press


Room Conversation

Type:
Room Conversation
Date:
May 20
Year:
1976
Place:
Honolulu

 id1

[audio quality very poor throughout] id2

Prabhupāda: …at any moment [indistinct]. And what is the program to get out of it? [indistinct] Why you are proud of your so-called rascaldom? [indistinct] What is your insurance to save yourself from the [indistinct]? id3

Woman devotee (1): My insurance? id4

Prabhupāda: Yes. Only insurance is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. [indistinct] That is your only insurance. That is [indistinct]. Simply by chanting. [indistinct] insurance to save you. id5

Devotee (2): id6

kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā
śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati
kaunteya pratijānīhi
na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati
[Bg. 9.31]

“He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes.” id7

Prabhupāda: [indistinct] id8

Devotee (2): Purport. “This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities—either by accident or intention—be a pure devotee? This question may be justly raised. The miscreants, are stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in the nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature. According to the Vedas, there is a certain regulation that if one falls down from his exalted position he has to undergo certain ritualistic processes to purify himself. But there is no such condition, because the purifying process is already there in the heart of the devotee, due to his remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly. Therefore, the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare should be continued without stoppage. This will protect a devotee from all accidental falldowns. He will thus remain perpetually free from all material contaminations.” id9

Prabhupāda: It is the only process to save yourself. id10

Devotee (3): You…, you told a story once about, there was one…, the devotee of Lord Caitanya, where he had never met Lord Caitanya, but he had some water sprinkled on him from a Muslim, Muhammadan, and that…, that astrologer told him to pour…, to drink lead, hot lead. And he said… I was… id11

Prabhupāda: Buddhimanta Khān. id12

Devotee (3): Yeah, Buddhimanta Khān. id13

[pause] id14

Devotee (3): You’ve also said in the past that there is no reality of this material world save for…, save Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, save… id15

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, nāma vinā kichu nāhika āra, cauddha-bhuvana-majhe. id16

[pause] id17

Devotee (3): Kṛṣṇa is our only insurance, and you are the…, you are the insurance representative. id18

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they become enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, [indistinct] was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, “Don’t kill,” and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are so [indistinct]. What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are [indistinct]. And not only that, they have been given this idea that “For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed[?].” Cow-killing is very, very sin. “That’s all right; don’t mind. Christ will suffer.” How easy understanding they have. id19

Devotee (2): They… id20

Prabhupāda: Huh? id21

Devotee (2): They call it love. id22

Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say, “Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you.” Please don’t love me! [laughter] Please get out. “I love you so much that I will kill you.” id23

Devotee (2): They like to keep the…, Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that’s very… id24

Prabhupāda: Therefore you see all the pictures in the church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show. id25

Devotee (2): They don’t have any… id26

Prabhupāda: They do not have picture, just like we show Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Such rotten things. That is going on in religion. They love… They love means they want to see their lovable suffering so much, you see. Only then [indistinct]. This, we want to see our lovable object that He is enjoying. Young boy, [indistinct] gopīs, and nice night, playing flute, He’s enjoying. That we want to see. And they want to see that lovable, he is suffering. How they can see it, if there is love? id27

Siddha-svarūpa: If they loved him they would not be able to stand to look at that. id28

Prabhupāda: That is going on in the name of religion. Therefore so many rogues, rascals. Rascals. We say clearly. [indistinct] Simply rogues. id29

Siddha-svarūpa: That is the symptom there. If they loved him, they would not be able to see that and glorify that. id30

Prabhupāda: That there was something [indistinct], one picture [indistinct]. There was a competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is [indistinct] of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings [indistinct]. That one painter, he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. [indistinct]. He got it. So that is real idea. You may paint [indistinct] expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is [indistinct]. It is correct. So how the mother can see it? There is [indistinct] being killed. So it is not very easy to [indistinct] cover the mouth, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is [indistinct]. All going on in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Simply. They do not know what is God, they do not know [indistinct] what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim.” They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ [SB 1.1.2]. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, disobeying the instruction of Christ, “Thou shall not kill”? “Therefore I shall kill him.” Is that religion? And they are showing how he was killed. id31

Siddha-svarūpa: One…, one man once said that to carry…, to glorify the cross is like they…, glorifying the revolver. id32

Prabhupāda: Yes. id33

Siddha-svarūpa: If the husband is shot, then you take the gun and you worship the gun. id34

Prabhupāda: That is… Yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church [indistinct]? id35

Woman: [indistinct] id36

Prabhupāda: So, the same picture, that Jesus Christ is carrying his cross, and falling, falling. And you go enjoy. id37

[long pause] id38

Prabhupāda: In Māyāpur you have seen Yoga-pīṭha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu birthplace? Yoga-pīṭha? id39

Devotee (2): Yes. id40

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu… id41

Devotee (2): Oh. id42

Prabhupāda: …and two sides, his two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is worshiped as a sannyāsī. id43

Devotee (2): Gṛhastha. id44

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha. Gṛhastha with two wives, he must enjoy. This is our process. Why you will see Him as a sannyāsī? Therefore Nityānanda Prabhu broke his daṇḍa. They want…, do not want to see Him as sannyāsī, [indistinct] renounce. Why He should be renounced? He is gṛhastha. “Oh, well.” God must enjoy… [break] id45

Devotee (5): I’m sorry it took so long, but I had a little trouble getting through to them. id46

Prabhupāda: Huh? id47

Devotee (5): First their…, first the telephone service were not free, and then their line was busy for some time. So I just got through to them a few minutes ago, and he says it wasn’t printed by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. id48

Prabhupāda: Then? id49

Devotee (5): He said they did it independently, unauthorized from Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and he already chastised them for using the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust label, ‘cause it has nothing to do with the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. id50

Prabhupāda: Who is he? id51

Devotee (5): Uhhh, I’m not sure. Who sent it? Bahulāśva? That devotee named Bahulāśva? id52

Devotee (6): Bahulāśva and Bhakti dāsa. id53

Devotee (5): And who else? id54

Devotee (6): Jayānanda. But Jayānanda… I saw this printed in L.A. before I came here. id55

Devotee (5): Oh. id56

Devotee (6): So I don’t think it’s a San Francisco endeavor. id57

Devotee (7): The separations were all… id58

Devotee (5): No, he said it was done there. id59

Devotee (6): Oh, in San Francisco? id60

Devotee (5): Yeah, they printed it while the festival was going on in India, and he didn’t know anything about it until he came back and saw that it was all printed. He said they were going to use it for some…, something to do with lectures. id61

Prabhupāda: Hmm? id62

Devotee (5): They were going to use it to introduce lectures and so forth. id63

Prabhupāda: So it was not published, so why did he publish unauthorized? id64

Devotee (5): Oh, I don’t know. He said that he was a little upset about it himself. id65

Prabhupāda: So this should not take place again. They should be informed that without being passed by the authority, nobody should publish any literature. This is already [indistinct]… id66

Devotee (5): Without, without being passed by the authorities…? id67

Prabhupāda: Should not be published. id68

Devotee (5): Does that mean the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust trustees? id69

Prabhupāda: Yes. So those who are managing, but why they are [indistinct]? Where does he live? id70

Devotee (3): I…, we’re still not sure who published it. Uh, Bahulāśva or Dharmādhyakṣa? Has anybody…, did you mention that? id71

Devotee (5): Rameśvara told me that they are the ones who did it, from the San Francisco center. Bahulāśva he mentioned, and a Dharmādhyakṣa. id72

Devotee (3): Hmm. Hmm. He’s in LA. id73

Devotee (5): He mentioned those two. He didn’t mention the others. He said they were… id74

Prabhupāda: Bahulāśva published, published? id75

Devotee (5): He said Bahulāśva and Dharmādhyakṣa. id76

Prabhupāda: Oh. id77

Devotee (5): Dharmādhyakṣa. I don’t know who he is. id78

Devotee (3): It’s the colleges. id79

Devotee (5): Oh. They’re, I think, in charge of the college program. id80

Prabhupāda: The idea is good, but [indistinct]. Impersonal. id81

Devotee (5): Hmm. id82

Prabhupāda: Impersonal is not good. id83

Devotee (5): So if someone was to receive this, they wouldn’t necessarily connect it with you at all. They could think it was anything, ‘cause there’s no mention of your name. id84

Prabhupāda: Who published it? id85

Devotee (5): Uhh, I don’t know who printed it. id86

Prabhupāda: That you did not ask? id87

Devotee (5): Rameśvara didn’t know anything about who printed it or how many copies were printed or anything. He said all he knew was that it was put together by Bahulāśva and Dharmādhyakṣa. id88

Prabhupāda: So ask them. id89

Devotee (5): I have to contact them and find out how it was actually… Should I write them a letter? id90

Prabhupāda: He just sent one letter. You, you write. id91

Devotee (5): This letter? id92

[pause] id93

Prabhupāda: So he, he is informed you are going? id94

Devotee (5): Rameśvara? Oh, yeah. They’re waiting. id95

Prabhupāda: So, [indistinct]. id96

Devotee (5): Well, they sent the tickets today, but we have not made the reservation yet. We were waiting for them to… [break] id97

Prabhupāda: …that place was selected… id98

Devotee (5): Hmm. id99

Prabhupāda: …for [indistinct]. [indistinct] id100

Devotee (7): Do you want to establish one center there? id101

Prabhupāda: [indistinct] id102

Devotee (7): Yeah, I would like to help. id103

Prabhupāda: Huh? id104

Devotee (7): I would like to help. id105

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] id106

Devotee (7): …[indistinct]? id107

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Especially when there is… id108

Devotee (7): [indistinct] id109

Prabhupāda: This Ratha-yātrā is in memory of Kṛṣṇa’s coming there with His brother and sister during one eclipse, to take bath, coming from Dvārakā. id110

Devotee (7): And the gopīs also assembled there? id111

Prabhupāda: The gopīs got the information that Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā, so from Vṛndāvana they went to see Him. And when Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī met, the Rādhārāṇī lamented that Kṛṣṇa—He was the same Kṛṣṇa and the same Rādhārāṇī—so “This is not a good meeting place. So if You come to Vṛndāvana, then I shall be happy.” So it is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. That is the feeling of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Ratha-yātrā. He is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. So in Jagannātha Purī still the same feelings are there. Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, from the temple goes to Guṇḍicā. So Lakṣmī is angry, that “Kṛṣṇa is leaving me. He has gone to Vṛndāvana.” So she was…, she is punishing. That is called Herā-pañcamī, punishing the servants of Kṛṣṇa. The maidservants of Lakṣmī chastising them, threatened them, “Why without permission?” [laughs] So they, out of very fearful condition, offering their respect to Lakṣmī, “Mother, you don’t be sorry. I am here [indistinct].” So this, this is the play performed, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu associates they saw, and they enjoyed very much when the maidservant of Lakṣmī was slapping the servant of Viṣṇu. That is mentioned Caitanya-caritāmṛta. All the servants arrested, brought before Lakṣmī, and they are punished. [laughs] But they came to invite Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī and other gopīs. And actually they do not go at that time. But this Ratha-yātrā ceremony means Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā. id112

Devotee (5): Do they have any temples of Lord Jagannātha there? They have any temples of Lord Jagannātha in Kurukṣetra? id113

Prabhupāda: No. Jagannātha, that is another history. King Indradyumna, he wanted to establish a temple of that incidence, and that the deities while being carved would remain unfinished. So he was very impatient to establish, so he established the unfinished Deity. That is Jagannātha. id114

Devotee (7): The nondevotees cannot understand… id115

Prabhupāda: They are being carved, Kṛṣṇa’s wood form, but he was so impatient, he said, “Whatever is done now, establish.” It is said that Viśvakarmā was enquiring[?]. So the term was, Viśvakarmā said that “Unless I finish, don’t open the door.” So this king, he went impatiently, and calling out whether he is finished. Then he forced…, forcibly opened the door, and it was unfinished. So he said, “Never mind, [indistinct].” Unfinished Kṛṣṇa [indistinct]. So Kṛṣṇa, finished or unfinished, is Kṛṣṇa. That is omnipotency. That is Jagannātha form, [indistinct] doesn’t matter finished or unfinished. [end] id116

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